I have voted for CUPA, because it will make things easier for you and after all, you can always be in touch with the individual experts you like. When moving to a foreign country, the institutional support is essential in the first years, you can make different choice after you find out how things work. The tutoring is not so important during the license, and for a Ph.D. you'd go to the EHESS or wherever you like, depending on the person you want to work with. On the other hand, it'd be much cheaper to study in some provincial town...:-( But your archives are in Paris...and the weather is BAD in Lille.
That sounds reasonable. I was thinking of just going with CUPA, but I wanted to hear what my f-list had to say. Of course, the other thing is, I really want to correspond with said experts, but I am intimidated and have no idea what to say. >.>;; That pretty much matches up with what I've heard. I think as long as I don't end up in a class taught by a revisionist - which really shouldn't be too hard to avoid (although there seem to be a lot of them at the EHESS too) - I'll be fine. You've got a point there; whatever else Lille might be, it's certainly not warm. And if I wanted to study there I'd have to do it on my own in any case.
As for the contact with the experts: the best way of establishing it is going to congresses and conferences, meeting them there, talking to them. Don't worry, people are generally very accesible, especially if you have read their books and you are willing to talk about them :-) There are lot of revisionists at the EHESS, but the way lectures are given there generally enable you to avoid them ;-)
I'll just have to work up the courage to actually approach them then. -__-;; I figured as much. Still the idea of being in such close proximity to them kind of freaks me out. >.>
DOn't worry, if you present a good paper, they may even come to speak with you themselves ;-) Moreover, there are official diners and other activities, so try not to get seated next to a revisionist and everything with be ok. Well, as for the EHESS, if you decide to follow a very particular Ph.D course, you might be even obliged to pick one or two courses given by such guys (as there won't be enough choice). But then, the advantages are great, too. The most important issue is the choice of the tutor. The courses are over soon, the dissertation is not...
Ooh, now I'm really nervous. XD; No, I'm sure everything will be fine. (Well, as long as I manage to stay away from the revisionists. ;)) For graduate studies it will probably make more sense for me to try to study at the IHRF if possible, but I suppose I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. And I would definitely never choose a revisionist to supervise my thesis. I'm not that masochistic. XD;;
I am sure you'll do very well (and choose a suitable person to supervise you). I'd be great if you could do the Ph.D. at the IHRF, I did not know it was officially possible.
Yes, that was what I thought. That the PhD is in the framework of another, broader institution. Great. Moreover, as you said CUPA does not include that university, it will benefit you not to have the licence and the Ph.D at the same university. It will give you points for scholarships.
It's the so-called "mobility". It means that in order to prevent academic endogamy, students are encouraged to move and are given points for it in the application for some scholarships and for jobs, later. There are even some scholarships tham require it as a condition sine qua non.
I think so. And what really matters is the place you get your PhD from, not the licence. There you'll establish closest contacts and useful networks. So it's better to save the best for that time.
I voted for CUPA, because as you said, it would make it easier. I know I couldn't tackle the bureaucratic monster by myself.
But I really wanted to vote for "study in Paris on my own", if not just because you could then walk the streets of Paris, singing "On My Own" and actually mean it.
I voted for CUPA as well, since it seems like it would be a lot less of a headache to work out. XD;; And, as sibylla_oo said, the institutional support that comes with being part of program could be quite nice/important. (On the other hand, I think you would definitely be more than capable of studying on your own. I just chose the option that would probably provide less frustration, at least in the initial process).
In other news, I'm undertaking an annotated translation of Quatre-Vingt-Treize this semester. It should be epic. ^__^
I think you're right; it's not that I couldn't handle studying on my own, it would just be a lot more of a hassle. And CUPA isn't a program in the sense that a lot of other programs are (ie, where you have to take their classes and are lucky if you get an elective or two in a real French university).
If I do a good job, it may even be published, eventually. (Of course, if anyone on my f-list wants to read it before then, they may find me easily persuadable... ;) )
It would be. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. ^__^ (Why, yes, of course you may read the finished translation for free before publication. Well, as long as you don't circulate it, that is. XD;;)
I know nothing of this sort of thing - my uni does study abroad as a matter of course - so I won't vote on something I can't help with. ^^;;
However, I do want to note for the record that I desperately want to see your annotated translation of Quatre-Vingt-Treize, because that will be COMPLETELY epic.
My university has a study abroad program - you don't need to sign up with anything, the university has arranged everything with all the other universities, teachers, etc. All you do is apply and you get housing, meal plans, classes, work opportunities, etc. Our university sometimes makes study abroad a mandatory part of courses (depending on the study programme you have) and it costs the exact same amount as it does to have a normal semester, so almost everyone inevitably goes abroad here. As a result, though, I know absolutely nothing about studying abroad in any other format except "go to uni website, put down name, pick classes and pack", so thus: utter ignorance.
Yay! ^____^ Take your time, but still: yay! Know that you have an eager audience.
I think I understand where you're coming from... It's one of those programs where your university has its own campuses in cities in different parts of the world, is it not? (Because mine too has similar programs and that's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to avoid in order to actually be able to study at a French university.)
It's just one of those things where, to me anyway, those programs only make sense if you're going to a country to learn the language. Since I already know French, even if it weren't my goal to live in France once I've graduated from my current university, why would I want to go essentially as a tourist?
I doubt its usefulness even for learning the language. The students are taught in English, have Enligh-speaking classmates, socialize with their countrymen. All they usually learn is to ask for a pint of beer and for the bill. I think it's more of an experience of being far from one's parents and knowing a foreign city ;-)
My school isn't like that - I went abroad to England because I didn't want to learn a language, but even then you're essentially kicked out into city on your own, and in the other countries I know that most students are housed with a family of the area and not really given the option of sticking with their countrymen, so to speak; and that's the ones that choose to go to the official "campus" of the university rather than just use my uni to get into another school - but I'm certain quite a few schools are. ^^ Actually, I'm pretty sure that's a universal student custom - certainly the tourist-students that come to my town don't bother learning any more English than that!
I see. I shan't generalize, but what I have seen was: 1) no contact with local scholars, no contact with local students 2) ok, they live with local families, but socialize with their classmates, who are almost exclusively from the university of origin. It's quite common to stick with other foreigners when one studies abroad, but if one studies in a local branch of his/her national university, then one generally does not mix, never mind the locals, not even with people from other countries in similar situation (which is what usually happens when people study at the local university). Of course, there are always exceptions. What I've seen were people who spend most of their time in company of their countrymen. For academic reasons it's also better to get directly to a big university, as the important experts are there. I mean, if you are coming for longer than a year, this is very important. if it's just a short stay, then the branch can be a good option.
I think that's certainly true for some of them, but I think others are geared specifically toward learning the language at a basic level. (Which of course means that they would still spend all their time with each other and not really see whatever city they're in except as tourists.)
Yeah, I've made too strong a statement. You're right. There are different kinds of programmes for different kinds of stays. As nijerseki has written, her university seems to offer a pretty good, integrating options. I was probably under the impact of reading Duval on Gallica and discussing in with maelicia on her LJ ;-)
Well, it certainly dazzled my reason for a couple of hours. I couldn't get back to work until late in the evening. Early 19th century memoires of young notary assistants are not for me. They sem to have similar effects on my brain as LSD. :-)
No, actually. ^^ We have the option to do that - our school has 7 "official" campuses around the world - but if you prefer not to do that, you just go to the office in charge of it and tell them. In Paris, for example, you have the option to go to "our" uni campus, but also to the University of Paris and take classes there. If you prefer to go somewhere else, you tell them, and they work out a program with the school you want to go to - anywhere in the world - and get you a discount because you go through the school. And then you attend the school as a normal student of that school for a semester/year.
But my uni is particularly unusual in that regard, as it considers its study abroad program to be Very Important to its reputation, and thus puts emphasis on it. ^^
Thanks. ^^ But don't worry! Our school screws us over in many equally annoying ways. That, unfortunately, is a general characteristic of universities...
Oh, in all the usual ways - regular unexpected increases in tuition, services getting cut, suddenly charging for necessary services that had previously been offered for free, obligatory purchases of unnecessary things...but, well, as I said, it's just all the usual ways.
Okay, that makes sense. I think most schools have some kind of unofficial way of getting students into whatever program or lack there of they want (within reason), but I suppose some might emphasize it more. (Obviously, when I say one of my options is to study on my own, that doesn't mean various professors wouldn't be available to help me with the process if I chose to do that.)
I'm probably going to go with CUPA. Although they just apparently suggested I take a class taught be Gueniffey, so that's not a good sign. (To be fair though, my French professor did only ask them to find a class on the Revolution, not one that wasn't taught by a revisionist.)
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montagnarde1793
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(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 06:32 (UTC)The tutoring is not so important during the license, and for a Ph.D. you'd go to the EHESS or wherever you like, depending on the person you want to work with.
On the other hand, it'd be much cheaper to study in some provincial town...:-( But your archives are in Paris...and the weather is BAD in Lille.
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 17:02 (UTC)That pretty much matches up with what I've heard. I think as long as I don't end up in a class taught by a revisionist - which really shouldn't be too hard to avoid (although there seem to be a lot of them at the EHESS too) - I'll be fine.
You've got a point there; whatever else Lille might be, it's certainly not warm. And if I wanted to study there I'd have to do it on my own in any case.
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 17:20 (UTC)There are lot of revisionists at the EHESS, but the way lectures are given there generally enable you to avoid them ;-)
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 18:17 (UTC)I figured as much.
Still the idea of being in such close proximity to them kind of freaks me out. >.>(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 18:46 (UTC)Well, as for the EHESS, if you decide to follow a very particular Ph.D course, you might be even obliged to pick one or two courses given by such guys (as there won't be enough choice). But then, the advantages are great, too. The most important issue is the choice of the tutor. The courses are over soon, the dissertation is not...
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 23:31 (UTC)For graduate studies it will probably make more sense for me to try to study at the IHRF if possible, but I suppose I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. And I would definitely never choose a revisionist to supervise my thesis. I'm not that masochistic. XD;;
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 23:34 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 23:37 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 00:01 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 00:05 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 00:13 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 00:20 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 01:01 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 12:53 (UTC)But I really wanted to vote for "study in Paris on my own", if not just because you could then walk the streets of Paris, singing "On My Own" and actually mean it.
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 17:10 (UTC)As amusing as that would be, I don't think it's worth it, somehow. XD;
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 21:15 (UTC)In other news, I'm undertaking an annotated translation of Quatre-Vingt-Treize this semester. It should be epic. ^__^
Ooooh! Epic indeed. :D
(no subject)
Date: Tuesday, 8 September 2009 23:27 (UTC)If I do a good job, it may even be published, eventually. (Of course, if anyone on my f-list wants to read it before then, they may find me easily persuadable... ;) )
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 02:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 03:37 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 01:34 (UTC)However, I do want to note for the record that I desperately want to see your annotated translation of Quatre-Vingt-Treize, because that will be COMPLETELY epic.
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 01:40 (UTC)It may take a while, but once it's done I'll be happy to share. ;)
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 04:22 (UTC)Yay! ^____^ Take your time, but still: yay! Know that you have an eager audience.
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 04:29 (UTC)That is always good to know. :D
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 07:48 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 12:11 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 14:51 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 21:51 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:03 (UTC)1) no contact with local scholars, no contact with local students
2) ok, they live with local families, but socialize with their classmates, who are almost exclusively from the university of origin.
It's quite common to stick with other foreigners when one studies abroad, but if one studies in a local branch of his/her national university, then one generally does not mix, never mind the locals, not even with people from other countries in similar situation (which is what usually happens when people study at the local university). Of course, there are always exceptions. What I've seen were people who spend most of their time in company of their countrymen.
For academic reasons it's also better to get directly to a big university, as the important experts are there. I mean, if you are coming for longer than a year, this is very important. if it's just a short stay, then the branch can be a good option.
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 23:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 23:37 (UTC)I was probably under the impact of reading Duval on Gallica and discussing in with maelicia on her LJ ;-)
(no subject)
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2009 01:47 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2009 01:59 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2009 02:36 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 21:47 (UTC)"our" uni campus, but also to the University of Paris and take classes there. If you prefer to go somewhere else, you tell them, and they work out a program with the school you want to go to - anywhere in the world - and get you a discount because you go through the school. And then you attend the school as a normal student of that school for a semester/year.
But my uni is particularly unusual in that regard, as it considers its study abroad program to be Very Important to its reputation, and thus puts emphasis on it. ^^
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:12 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:41 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 22:43 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Friday, 11 September 2009 18:00 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 23:40 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Thursday, 10 September 2009 01:49 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 04:24 (UTC)And, eee, this is exciting. Good luck with the translation, I'm sure it will be amazing. :D
(no subject)
Date: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 04:32 (UTC)I do hope so. It will have to be in order to be published. I think I can do it though. :D