This is awesome

[montagnarde1793]

I'd just like to say that I'm glad this group exists. If only as a counterbalance to those groups where people dress up as aristos and have balls and dinner parties.

And I totally want those costumes, OMSB. /shallow

Comments

[francoisejeanne.livejournal.com]

*in love* Of course, I'm always far away from everything good. Do I have to mention I'd join them any time?
What a wonderful period it was (who knows if I would have survive it, though :D)!

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I'm incredibly tempted to join them myself, once I get back here on a more permanent basis.
(It seems likely to me that I wouldn't have survived, alas, between diseases and more unnatural deaths. Oddly, if I had a time machine, this would not make me hesitate a second to go back there. In the meantime, reenacting will have to do.)

[francoisejeanne.livejournal.com]

I'd go back right now while I'm writing this. At least to hear one of Robespierre's speeches (and to see him, meet him, talk to him...).

A propos your current user pic. I was wondering what's the source of the quote "Ame virile, elle saurait mourir comme elle sait aimer". I've seen it only on wikipedia. Did he really say that? If yes, when?

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Me too, believe me.

The source is Esquiros's Histoire des Montagnards for which he interviewed Élisabeth Le Bas. Admittedly, on the dubious side, because like most 19th century historians, he doesn't believe in footnotes. Which means that theoretically, he could have made it up. If Élisabeth really did tell him that Robespierre said it, I would tend to believe it, since it doesn't seem like the kind of line she would make up - judging by the style of her memoirs. But who knows, really?

I like to believe Robespierre really said it, or something like it, and while I wouldn't say "Robespierre said this" in a work of non-fiction (though I might say "Esquiros claims that Mme Le Bas said that Robespierre said this"), my liking it and finding it plausible is enough to put in on an icon. (Besides, as it stands, I tend to agree with the phrase even if Robespierre didn't say it.)

As for the "when"... 19th century historians can be terribly non-specific, and Esquiros is no exception. In fact, if I remember correctly, he uses the imparfait, as if this were a phrase Robespierre used on more than one occasion.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* Sorry, the source is Lamartine's Histoire des Girondins and not Esquiros's Histoire des Montagnards. I don't know why I confused them. Everything else in the comment still goes though, however, since Lamartine also interviewed Élisabeth Le Bas. In fact, Lamartine is an even more credible source on this point - at least if you want to believe Élisabeth - because Élisabeth went over his manuscript and pointed out the passages that were contrary to her recollections and this wasn't one of them.

[francoisejeanne.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. Well, thank you for this informations!

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Esquiros does, however, use the phrase "âme virile" in reference to Éléonore, which makes me think Élisabeth might have told both Esquiros and Lamartine about it. (Yes, it's theoretically possible that Esquiros just copied Lamartine, but since their books came out around the same time, I don't think it's too likely.)

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Scratch that, actually. Apparently the phrase only shows up in the 1875 edition of Histoire des Montagnards, which means Esquiros most likely got it either from Lamartine or from Hamel, who also uses it and most likely also got it from Lamartine.

It's striking how much Esquiros seemingly embellished from one edition to the other. Compare:

"Ses rapports journaliers avec Éléonore, la fille aînée du menuisier, avaient un caractère moins protecteur et plus tendre qu'avec ses autres soeurs. Un jour, Maximilien, en présence de ses hôtes, prit la main d'Éléonore dans la sienne : c'était conformément aux usages de sa province (l'Artois) un signe de fiançailles. De ce moment il fut regardé plus que jamais par M. et madame Duplay comme un membre de la famille." - 1847 edition

and

"Un sentiment plus tendre que l'amitié l'attirait vers Éléonore, la fille aînée du menuisier. C'était, dit-on, une belle personne aux traits accentués, à l'âme virile. Un jour, Maximilien, en présence de ses hôtes, prit la main d'Éléonore dans la sienne et lui glissa au doigt un anneau d'or : c'était, conformément aux moeurs de sa province (l'Artois), un signe de fiançailles. Toutefois le mariage fut ajourné à la paix (comme on disait alors), c'est-à-dire à des jours meilleurs et moins troublés, où la France serait débarrassée de ses ennemis." - 1875 edition

Most of the additions seem to be mere precisions, but I wonder at the addition of the ring. Did he just forget to put it in the first time? Did he have another interview with Élisabeth after the book was published on the subject? (Élisabeth did live for another twelve years after the publication of the first edition.) Did he make it up to make it sound more legitimate or because he belatedly read more about marriage customs in Artois and realized his first account didn't match them (honestly, I have no idea what the custom was for betrothal in 18th century Artois and have no idea where you would even look something like that up)? It's a small detail, but it bothers me...

[francoisejeanne.livejournal.com]

I was checking the book now but I couldn't find it :/
However, that sounds to me like something he really would have said.

[francoisejeanne.livejournal.com]

Okay, found it! It's so sweet. Thank you once again!

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

that sounds to me like something he really would have said.
That's the main reason I hold onto it. I can't prove he said it, but it sounds plausible and I like it, so as long as I'm not claiming it as absolute truth, why not?

Okay, found it! It's so sweet. Thank you once again!
You're very welcome. And it is sweet.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Omfsb. Those costumes are amazing. *__*

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

They are. I wish I had one like them...

[josiana.livejournal.com]

Omsb. ;_; I WANT THEM TOO.

And I wish that existed here.

Not that I oppose people dressing up as aristos, but diversity is good. :(

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

It would be thoroughly awesome.

People can dress up as aristos all they like, but for a lot of people, that's what the 18th century is, so I'm glad this group is there to say, "wait a minute, there were other, potentially more important things going on..."

[josiana.livejournal.com]

Eee, yes. ;_; Maybe one day.

Yes. Diversity is always a good thing. :D